6.03.2010

Dayna Martin: A hippy who needs punching...

Trust me, you'll want to smack her around in about 5 minutes...


Say hello to Dayna Martin, according to her Wiki entry she is " a La Leche League leader, a natural birth educator, an attachment parenting counselor, and a birth doula. She founded The Babywearing Project". That is all just a very long way of saying that she has no discernible job skills and has conned other dirty hippies to pay her for convincing them that they are just as awesome as she is.

But, Martin has gained new fame as the leader of the "Radiocal Unschooling Movement". An offshoot of homeschooling, unschooling (which is apparently legal in New Hampshire), takes the Rousseau model of "free learning" to new, idiotic boundaries...and the children learn nothing, except for what they want to learn. According to the fascinating, if not infuriating, ABC News article,

They live as though school doesn't exist. They're at home all day, but they're not being homeschooled. They're being "unschooled." There are no textbooks, no tests and no formal education at all in their world.
"Just picture life without school. So, maybe a weekend. We wake up, and we have breakfast, and we just start pursuing what we're interested in doing," said Dayna Martin, a mother of four in Madison, N.H.
"I just personally don't believe that humans learn best when they're trying to learn something that somebody else is telling them to," she said.
And she doesn't necessarily think they need to mind their Ps and Qs. Her hands-off approach extends to other areas of the children's lives. The kids are allowed to eat whatever they want -- even pasta with peanut butter sauce -- as long as it is in the house.
What's more, they make their own decisions, and don't have chores or rules. "Because we don't punish, we don't use the term rules," Martin said.


 Oh, you little rapscallions, of course you can have ice cream again, and don't worry about the mess, Mommy will clean it up.




A complete lack of ground rules is Martin's revolution: No rules, no chores, no dietary guidelines, no balanced meals, no schools, no books; I'm sure that makes her childrens' favorite parent, ever, but what about radical unschooling. How do the kids learn?

"I think sometimes people they'll come over and spend time with us, family or friends. They'll ask me, 'How do your kids learn if they're having fun all day?' Like, they so don't equate learning with fun," she said. "Whatever they're interested in, I try to bring as much of that into their life as possible with as many resources as possible."


Okay, learning can be fun. I get that (ever heard of a Montessori, per chance?). And it is child-directed learning (again, ever heard of a Montessori?). But, without books, or fundamental learning skills, are the children actually going to be prepared? Educated? Psssh-ah, says Martin; she said she has "such a present-based mind-set" that she doesn't think about her kids' futures, and that she just wants them to be happy."



 And, you too can fuck up your kids for life....just buy my book.



Seriously, she poo-poos the notion of children learning, having any sort of self-discipline, or any future skills so that they can better their future. For instance, look at this colloquy between Martin and one of her indoctrinees:

"What if they really do need algebra, and I don't teach them algebra or I miss some specific part of something that 's going to help them to learn algebra down the road right now while I'm in the early phases of their life," Berg asked.

"The fears that you have are so normal," Martin said. "Algebra is not something that everybody needs to know. This life is about honoring the fact that we are not all put on the earth to do the same thing in life. ... It is such an individualized education as opposed to a cookie cutter education where kids are kind of, this bucket of knowledge that you pour into kids and they may or may not learn it."


So, there you have it: Honor this life by making the decision to force you your children to be stupid, ill-educated and utterly without any skills or future. Yep. Sounds like selfish hippie shit to me. I know, you're probably thinking that this may be an artsy family, and I'm being too cruel. Because, the kids are probably learning literature, and, in any event, have decent basic skills.

Let's test that assumption, shall we, with this discourse on classic literature:


What happens when the learning becomes more sophisticated and her kids need to be exposed to Shakespeare or Twain or Henry James?
"I think a lot of people might value that more than others. That that is important and it is part of someone's life. I honestly don't remember, yes, although I know their names, I don't remember the details of what I learned in school about the historians," Martin said.


Okay, so literature (or history, for that matter) is not a strong suit with the Martin family...



Besides conflating classic literature with history, and summing it all up as a matter of whether we should "honor" it or not, what about basic math skills. Surely her 10-11 year old munchkin can add, subtract, multiply and divide...all pretty necessary skills, even if the we don't "honor" balancing a checkbook, or being reduced to a blubbering idiot at checkout counters. Let's see how Devin, her oldest, fared:
Martin said her children have picked up adequate reading and math skills without formal instruction. But when we asked Devin a basic multiplication question, he stumbled.


So very, very sad for these children. Raised in a world without the benefit of testing their minds, being exposed to broad-breadth ideas and notions, testing the world of ideas and their place in this world, learning about the myriad of possibilities for their futures. And, all because this selfish, frankly evil, duo of dunderheaded pussies don't have the gumption to grow-the-fuck up and do what's right for their children...even if every waking moment of every day isn't "fun" or being "honored".



Seriously, Dayna, just let wolves raise your children...it will have the same effect and be more honest that your psuedo-intellectual trappings of "honor" and "freedom".




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95 comments:

  1. I loved reading this.

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  2. Thank you...this woman is a true piece of work, and I'm sure her parents won't thank her for "honoring their present" when they are staring at a lifetime of unemployment and/or manual labor.

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  3. I think its perfectly fine if you don't agree with her, but to make fun of her shows your childish tendencies. Concentrate on your own life, our own children and what you want and need for them. You poke fun at a woman who truly loves her children and wants to do right by them, not the same kind of right you agree with, but right none-the-less. There are many, many, many worse ways to parent in this world, come to my neighborhood and you'll see it: parents who throw their kids into the school district but are at home doing drugs and beating their children and let them run around outside at 2 am every single night. I think what Mrs. Martin is doing is noble, although all of her techniques would not work for our family and I don't agree with some of them, to each their own. Everyone you come across, online and off, is here to teach you something, ask yourself what little thing can you learn from her? Read her blog, www.thesparklingmartins.com (I think that's it) and see what she says about judging others. When you judge others, it makes you an angry gossip, and what good does that do for yourself and your family?

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    1. amen Magikal Housewife! :) Preach it sista. I love what you wrote here.

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    2. BRAVO to you! you said what I was thinking! just because you disagree with the way others do things or chose to live their life does not give you the right to name call belittle or shame them! we need to learn how to disagree without making it personal.

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  4. wow - you quite the idiot.

    ~Lara

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  5. Viciously attacking and threatening violence against people you disagree with is wrong. You should stop. You should delete this post. The comments you've made about how the Martins live are misleading and inaccurate. You make it sound like they are neglecting their children and that is just not true.

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  6. Did you research this in any way except reading the ABC article?

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  7. I see that your research has not gone beyond the ABC "news" program. No one ever said unschooling did not include learning or books. Before you sit down to poorly write a critical analysis of someone, you might want to take the time to 1.) research your data and 2.) use spell check.

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    1. Two years later (see wife swap), the kids still can't read. It's outrageous.

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    2. Children are ready at different ages to start learning how to read. Some unschooling children learn to read before 5, and it takes longer for others, which is perfectly fine. Trying to jam all children into benchmarks doesn't work, which is why the school system is failing most children. Dayna Martin is doing it right, following her children's interests, and guiding them through the process of learning. Try Googling experiences of actual unschooling children and their accomplishments, should shut you up right away.

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    3. The above was a response to wrlord :)

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  8. You're ridiculous! You are really basing most of your opinion off of a horribly slanted TV segment. Really?! The networks have an agenda silly. We embrace the unschooling philosophy as well and have an 18, 15, and 11 year old who are all highly intelligent, well-adjusted children living passionate lives. One of the more noticeable things about them, that I get comments on all the time, is how they can sit with a group of adults and share and contribute to the conversation. People are always amazed at how "adult" they seem. Why? Because they have always lived in the "real world", not this strange, artificial world that we call school. My oldest has a good job, making him $16.89 an hour and is off to college next year, so the argument about being prepared has already been shattered. Although, like most unschoolers, I am more concerned with their happiness than I am them fitting into some mold that our society has created. Success to our family has nothing to do with monetary things, but rather that they are living passionate lives, doing the things they love to do. I think you need to learn a little more about the philosophy and meet other families before making such strong opinions about things you know nothing about. What is portrayed on TV and what the Martin's home/family life looks like are two COMPLETELY different things.

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  9. Seems like you just saw the one story ABC did on the Martins and then wrote this horribly inaccurate and abusive story.
    Threatening to punch a mother in the face?
    You are the one who should not have children!
    Look at what you would teach them!
    But dont fret too much, they probably wont give two shits about what you try and teach them because you are going to force them to go to SCHOOL which everyone knows is WRONG! Forcing people to do anything is just plain WRONG!
    Thats why Im not going to try and force you to feel bad and take this down...You need tofigure stuff out on your own!
    UNSCHOOLING ROCKS and you sir,do not.period.

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    1. He didn't "threaten" anyone. Sloppy learning leads to sloppy thinking. Get a clue!

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  10. You are obviously a "Miserable" person!!

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  11. If going to public school will make my children turn out anything like you (angry, violent, ill-mannered, inconsiderate,and so on), I would rather they didn't. I agree with the previous commenter when she asked "Did you research this in any way except reading the ABC article?". Unschoolers do use books, just not textbooks. We use library books as well as purchased books along with the internet and many other learning resources. My children have learned more in the past year of unschooling than they did in all of their years stuck in public school. I'm so thankful that I was introduced to Dayna Martin and Sandra Dodd as well as other unschooling parents. When I first started reading about unschooling, I too was a little bit skeptical. However, rather than just flipping out about something that I know nothing about, I did a huge amount of research on unschooling. The more research I did, the more it made perfect sense. I don't presume to know much about your occupation as a lawyer. But rather than just spouting off the stereotypical comments about lawyers, I would want to learn more about you before I reduce myself to attacking you which is what you have done to Dayna. Shame on you!

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  12. Since you're an attorney, you're presumably aware that this is libel. I hope Ms. Martin sues.

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    1. Since you're not an attorney, you obviously don't know that it isn't.
      btw, I am.

      Delete
  13. You did about as good, if not worse, as ABC covering what Radical Unschooling is. *applause*

    Now, if you care to, go research unschooling. Go meet some unschooling families. You might actually be surprised by what you find.

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    1. "You did good."
      Another unschooled wit.

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    2. Proper grammar doesn't make you an intelligent person, it just means you were able to memorize rules handed down to you by a school teacher. An intelligent person researches, and bases opinions on actual facts, did you research unschooling and what it actually does? Or did you just base everything on a news report, which if you were an intelligent person you would know that they are always skewed to portray what they channel wants to portray.

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  14. This article is right on the money. This woman lives in fantasy land. I've never known anyone who can write and speak so much and say absolutely nothing! She writes and talks like a hallmark greeting card. It is certainly her right to spend her life in the land of make believe and to never grow up. However, her children are going to be the ones who pay the price for her living in her self-absorbed, narcissistic world. Grow up, Dayna!

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    1. Have you researched the accomplishments of other unschoolers?

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  15. I get that you don't agree with the choices they have made as a family, but to attack them in this way is ignorant and just plain mean. And if you want to make persuasive and intelligent argument against anything, refrain from name-calling and using curse words - it just makes you seem unintelligent. Not every traditionally schooled child makes it to college, many live lives on the unemployment lines and doing manual labor, many don't have 1/2 the love in their lives that Dayna has for her kids. There are a lot worse things in life than loving your kids so much you don't want them exposed to the abuses of school life.

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  16. Radical unschooling is just another form of laziness. I know several radical unschoolers and all of them started out home schooling, then apparently, realized it involved work on their part and decided to find something that didn't. Hello radical unschooling! These nutcases are nothing more than lazy, irresponsible parents who don't want to put any effort into raising their children.

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    1. LOL you obviously know nothing about unschooling. Unschooling parents actually spend time with their children, guiding them through the learning process everyday! Unlike parents who throw their children at the school system and expect the teachers to do all the work for them :)

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  17. I'm so sorry you feel threatened by Dayna and are full of so much anger. Peace and blessings.

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  18. I saw the ABC story and I've also seen Dayna's reaction to it. What seems to be upsetting her is that the program showed her family as they really are, and of course she doesn't like that. They showed clips of her "no rules" kids acting like the undisciplined brats they are. Eleven year old Devin Couldn't even solve a simple multiplication problem. This is not the side of her family life she wants people to see. Of course not, because it's reality and Dayna never ventures there!

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    1. Two years later, the other child is 11, and she can't even read!

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  19. Hi. I am the teenage daughter of a "radical unschooler" and a friend of Devin and Tiffany Martin.
    I have never felt neglected by my parents.
    One point about unschooling that no one seems to be making is that by letting us make the choice to learn, and not forcing us into things we don't want to do, it creates a natural curiosity to learn and fin things out for ourselves.
    If Devin isn't interested in Math so be it, but I do know that he enjoys building things around his home and working with the computer to animate home videos and he has a fabulous time doing it.
    Unschooling is not just lazy parents who don't want to do any work in their children's lives, they're much more then that. They are a constant, someone who is always there. Someone you can count on if you need help or want something or just to talk. Not something you can say a lot of school educated children have.
    For the entire school day, a child in the school system is around adults who have no personal interest in your child and other children the same age as yours who have the same knowledge as your own.
    When you're unschooled you meet tons of people all different ages with all different knowledges about how the world around you works. Which in my opinion, is closer to the 'real world' then going to school.
    Personally I know, that I am able to fit in with any group of people, not something you learn in school, just something I do naturally. Same with my sisters and most of my unschooled friends. I can also say that when I say friends, it's not just a couple teenagers, I have friends who are extremely young and friends who are quite old.
    I think maybe you should learn more about unschooling, you might be surprised by what you find. Unless of course, you think that what you know is enough to draw a reasonable conclusion. But I think you would be wasting your time to hate something so passionately and hate it for the wrong reasons. If anything, hate it after you've learned what we're about.
    With all due respect.
    ~ER

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  20. First of all, I think you may be the one who needs to be punched. Your ignorance and provincial attitude towards anything that is rather new and atypical is disgusting. Don't you think the idea of adding meatballs to spaghetti was thought ludicrous at some point? However the combination works. Just because something is new and foreign to you does not mean it is not effective. Having the pleasure of being related to these people, I can tell you from personal experience that this method is extremely effective. The sense that their household is chaotic which you put into this article is nonsense. Not having rules and order pushed on the children allows them to learn how to establish it themselves, which in my opinion is a much more useful tool than having someone force you to do something their way. As far as the intelligence factor, I can also tell you these children are extremely bright, just more so when it comes to subjects they are passionate about. That eliminates the time wasted in school that is spent learning unnecessary information. For example, if Devin decides he wants to be a writer, how will learning something like advanced algebra be useful to him ? Additionally, I don’t see what need there is for knowledge of literature or history, unless it interests them personally and they have the desire to learn about these topics. They gain knowledge that they use , which is a nice comparison to school where information is thrown at you, and usually forgotten unless you have the need to use it in your life. Being a schooled student myself, I can say that I have lost a good 70% of what I have learned in school, because it is useless to me in my every day life. This type of life allows these children to have fun, love life, and learn about things that will be useful to them. They are well educated, just without the prison like feeling and restrictedness you get from regular school. They know respect and order, just without punishment and harsh discipline which leads to unhappiness. And most of all, they know how to live life to the fullest, so, just maybe, your the " dunderheaded pussy ". It is truly sad that you're so insular and cannot understand new concepts like this, and it seems that you're truly frightened by this. It’s a disappointment that even lawyers can’t comprehend things like this... Next time, do your research.

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    1. "Just because something is new and foreign to you does not mean it is not effective."

      That comment seemed reasonable to me the first time I read it. However, I was going by listening to Dayna Martin's characterizations on her children's level of intellectual development.

      Then I saw that her daughter can't read a two-syllable word at the age of 11. So I asked the question here, giving copious credit where credit is due, and with the best of intentions.

      The comment was deleted within a couple moments. Do you think this reassured me that the Martin family's children are being educated as well as you claim?

      Look, I believe unschooling can probably be done well, but I do not believe for a moment children have traditionally been brought up without adult instruction. Without formal indoctrination in boring horrible state-run schools, yes. Without the parents and community making a concerted effort to pass on their practical knowledge to the children and not just whatever the child feels like learning, no.

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  21. whoa. I don't even know if I believe in unschooling. but I certainly know that your woman-hating, violent spiel is fairly repellent. You should pretty much be ashamed.

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  22. I feel sorry for you. I hope you are able to find happiness in your life.

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  23. btw- She is not hippy at all, she is quite thin actually. She may be somewhat of a hippie though.

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  24. "Lawyer?" Dude, you are a TOOL! I'm SURE you're amazing in the courtroom! LOL! You're a real "tough guy" too...Dayna is my sister and best friend. You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about...Punch in the face??? You need a good kick in the ass. You see a 7 minute clip on ABC and you're judging my sister, my brother-in-law as well as my nieces and nephews? Awesome research dude. They are very smart, loving, social, well adjusted people, which you obviously are not. Dayna would not even want me to waste my time on a meathead like you, but I feel compelled...I'm sure you don't have kids, and you never should...although I'm sure there are no women out there who would want to be with a loser like you...Does writing hate like this make you feel good about your "shortcomings?" You are quite obviously a lonely person with no life...My family is filled with joy and happiness...Do the world a favor...Go get yourself castrated...If the doctor can actually find your balls...

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  25. Ya, I just viewed your profile...you have NO LIFE...You're a waste of time...

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  26. Bro, I know Dayna and her family...AWESOME people, awesome kids...go put a gun in your mouth and do the world a favor...PULL THE TRIGGER!

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    1. Were you there when their son tried to strangle another boy? Just curious. Or when they told me years ago how they were trying to get on wifeswap and were gonna have their son Devin get a tattoo for "dramatic effect". But then after looking into it realizing it would be illegal because of age and instead decided to get his septum pierced? I guess in your eyes using and exploiting your children to push your own fame is "awesome"

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  27. What's your real name?...Richard Head?

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  28. Punching a women??? I'd LOVE to meet you in a dark alley...Piece of garbage...

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  29. ...It is obvious you want my sister, judging from the big picture you put up of her...NEVER gonna get it dude...

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  30. Lawyer? Go get yourself some spellcheck...

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  31. Wanna see what a FREAK this person is??? Just go to his profile, scroll down to his blogs and see him totally stalking a porn star...REALLY disturbing! WHAT A FREAKIN LOSER! I can totally see this person sitting in a dark room full of her pics, saying, "It puts the lotion on it's skin, and puts the lotion in the basket."

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  32. Parents like Dayna and Joe Martin are the very people who are going to bring more restrictions from the government on home schoolers. As a responsible home schooler who cares about my child's ability to function in the world and puts effort into their education, I resent lazy, irresponsible parents like this and especially self-centered, attention seeking ones like Dayna Martin. These people and their kids are going to be held up as an example by overzealous politicians of why more restrictive legislation on home schooling is needed.

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    1. Quite right. The answer to a failing school system is not to compound it by giving up on educating children!

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  33. It is much easier to say yes to everything your kids want or allow them to eat anything they want or allow them to make their own rules or to allow them to go through life believing they are the center of the universe. Do these radical unschoolers really believe they are acting in the best interest of their child doing this? Are they really naive enough to believe they are equipping them for a world that is not going to cut them the slack that mom and dad will? What about their health? Dayna will no doubt give some silly answer to this saying they will make the right choices if you trust them and choose carrot sticks over Twinkies. But any real parent knows this is nonsense. And then she tell you it is about "trusting" your children. But it isn't a question of trusting your kids. It's about trusting their instincts. And no, I'm not going to trust the instincts of a five or six year old when it comes to nutrition or whether they should play by the side of a busy road. No parent with even a small amount of common sense would.

    These people have gone to the opposite extreme of parents who raise their kids in a militant environment with excessive rules. Neither of these is an intelligent solution to parenting and neither is a healthy environment to grow up in. Rarely does the intelligent answer lie at either of the extremes. Reason usually lies somewhere in the center.

    A more suitable term for what these lazy, reckless parents are doing would be "unparenting". Because parenting is exactly what they are not doing!

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  34. LAZY? Lazy is sending your kids to school for 8 hours a day lazy is not helping kids navigate every day of life lazy is not what unschooling is not for one sec...

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  35. That's right, LAZY!!! And just FYI, I don't send my kids to school. I home school, but unlike these lazy parents, I don't do what is easiest for me. I put some work and effort into making sure my kids are equipped with the knowledge and tools they will need in the future so they don't end up unable to solve a simple multiplication problem at eleven years old. And like I wrote previously this really has nothing to do with schooling or unschooling. "Unparenting" is what these lazy, self-absorbed people are doing.

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  36. If Dayna Martin can't stand the criticism perhaps she shouldn't go around chasing media attention anywhere she can find it. This attention starved narcissist appears on any program that will have her, allows herself to be exploited, touts her silly ideas on national television and then cries about it when she ends up looking like an ass! Is she really that stupid that she didn't see it coming? Get over yourself, Dayna. Nobody cares except your small band of nutty groupies who are as useless at parenting as you are.

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  37. To those of you being critical of Dayna, beware. Some poor woman on Amazon dared to write a negative(honest) review of her book. Within minutes of posting the review, Dayna's psycho husband hunted her down on Facebook using her email address and sent her harassing, threatening messages. This is the kind of people the Martins are. This is the side Martin family Dayna keeps well hidden.

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  38. If Dayna keeps this "well hidden," then how did you find out about it??? Moron...

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  39. It's funny how some of you here criticise the Martins and the way they conduct their lives, yet you have never met them, and have no real clue about what you are talking about. I don't unschool my kids, nor do I homeschool, but that does not mean either are wrong. And to the person who called them "lazy," many would call YOU lazy for homeschooling. I bet you don't wake your kids up at 6am getting them ready for the day like you would have to if they went to school...You probably do the same thing the Martins do, but call it "homeschooling" to make yourself look or feel better about it. Just as many people would dump on you for homeschooling as do people for unschooling. I'm sure you have caught slack from some people for homeschooling, but you feel it is right. You are such a hypocrite! You go against the grain by homeschooling, but dump on someone else for doing what they feel is right??? WOW!

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    1. I have met them. People have no idea the fraud this family is.

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  40. Go read the reviews on her book on Amazon, you mindless idiot! I'm sure Dayna didn't expect the woman to go back and edit the review after she sicked Joe on the poor woman.

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  41. "Go read the reviews on her book on Amazon, you mindless idiot!" "Mindless idiot," because someone doesn't agree with YOUR views??? You get upset when someone calls you out or doesn't agree with you, yet YOU feel like you should do the same to other people? Your a twisted person. I'm sure your kids are loving and sweet, just like you. If THIS is homeschooling at its finest then I have to question that. By the way, it is the middle of the day, shouldn't you be "homeschooling" your kids? Instead, you are playing on your computer. AWESOME JOB!

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  42. To the homeschooling person, you seem very hateful and angry. You call people names who don't agree with you, yet you homeschool? I agree with the person above; you ARE a hypocrite. is THAT the type of thing you teach your kids? Hate and name-call those who don't agree with you? You are a sad, unhappy person. Your kids will turn out the same way, but what your doing is right?

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  43. "That's right, LAZY!!! And just FYI, I don't send my kids to school. I home school, but unlike these lazy parents, I don't do what is easiest for me. I put some work and effort into making sure my kids are equipped with the knowledge and tools they will need in the future so they don't end up unable to solve a simple multiplication problem at eleven years old. And like I wrote previously this really has nothing to do with schooling or unschooling. "Unparenting" is what these lazy, self-absorbed people are doing."

    You homeschool. You teach your kids what you feel they need to know. Yet YOU slam others for doing the same thing? You have made yourself look like a total idiot!

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  44. Lazy for home schooling? That's a new one! I would say that someone like you, who packs up their kids five days a week to be looked after and raised by public employees payed for by taxpayers in a public institution so you can get rid of them for 6 or 7 hours a day would be considered "lazy". Allowing someone else to do that job for you requires a lot less effort and would be considered much lazier than doing that job yourself. And no, Ive never caught slack from anyone for home schooling because, unlike these lazy radical unschoolers, I take the time to teach my kids. My kids score much higher on SAT tests than publicly schooled kids. In fact, they are way ahead of the grade they would now be in if they were in public school. So I guess the proof is in the pudding, isn't it?

    And no, home schooling doesn't make me a hypocrite. Most people don't have a problem with home schooling. The issue lies in not educating your kids at all. Which is what "radical unschoolers are doing.

    The definition of "un": a prefix meaning “not,”.

    The definition of the verb "school" to educate; teach; train.

    So by definition these lazy people are not educating, teaching or training their children. People are free to live whatever radical life style they choose but they are not free to not educate their kids, at least not in any other state other than Texas, which by the way, has the highest illiteracy rate in the country. The point is that their kids are the ones who will ultimately pay the price. It is their future they are gambling with. And that is a shame. I wonder if their kids will thank them for a lifetime of unemployment or manual labor.

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  45. To the ignorant person who wrote ""Go read the reviews on her book on Amazon, you mindless idiot!" "Mindless idiot," because someone doesn't agree with YOUR views???" The "idiot" I was referring to referred to me as a "moron". If you actually read the comments before of shooting your mouth off in blissful ignorance you would have known that. But of course you don't!

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  46. Again, if you are such an amazing "homeschooler" and teacher, why are you on your computer for hours at a time instead of "teaching" your kids? If saying your a "homeschooler" makes you feel better about yourself, fine. It is very easy to say your kids are better than the rest, but like the person above stated, I see NO difference between a person who has time to screw off all day on their computer and what the Martins are doing. You have been posting for hours. Your kids sure are learing a lot! Hypocrite is absolutely right. The above person pegged you right.

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  47. I don't usually post on things like this, but stumbled onto this. I agree with the above person who called you a hyporite. You smash every belief: except your own. You smash unschooling, public schooling and anyone who has a different opinion or belief. THAT is the true definition of ignorance, since you seem so big on definitions. I also agree with them questioning what you are doing on your computer on a Friday afternoon for hours when you "say" you are a homeschooler? Ya, I'm sure your kids are advanced! LOL! If they are anything like you, I feel sorry for them.

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  48. You call someone a "mindless idiot," but get upset that they called you a "moron?!" Sounds like a TOTAL hypocrite to me. I agree with the above folks.

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  49. I don't know if I agree with unschooling, but to the person who called them lazy, I don't know. I don't know the Martin family, but I do find it amazing that neither do you, yet you are judging them and critisizing them with very few solid facts. You just sound very ignorant yourself for judging others, when you homeschool! And yes, there are MANY who don't agree with that philosophy either, yet you do it. You should take a hard look in the mirror before judging others. It just makes your whole stance look pathetic and weak.

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  50. lol...It's funny how the "homeschooler" when called out simply name calls and gets in a tizzy, but never addresses any of the comments brought up by the previous poster, like why are you on your computer all day, or I bet you don't get your kids up early. It seems this person picks and chooses what they think will bolster their argument, rather than addressing the other comments. it IS ignorant.

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  51. I wonder how many books the "homeschooler" has written? Can you say JEALOUS!

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  52. I agree with the previous comment from August 6, 2010 at 3:44pm. Dayna Martin is a successful author and Joe Martin runs a successful business. I think that they are perfect role models to their children showing them that you can follow your dreams, do what you want in this life, and be happy all without having to conform to stereotypical societal "rules". I'm really disappointed with both sides actually. Both the people agreeing with this blogger and the people agreeing with the Martins are all saying some not very nice things. I don't know Dayna personally but from reading her blog and facebook wall, I am 100% sure that she would never condone telling someone to put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger which is what someone posted above. That is an awful thing to say. It's one thing to try to support and make a stand for the views that you believe in but it's another thing to personally attack people. There is no one right way to get an education. There are many different ways. One way may work for some people and not for others. I think that we just need to agree to disagree. I do want to comment on the poster that said that unschooling was "not educating, teaching, or training". I suppose if you break down the definition, that is the technical definition. I will give you that. However, beyond the technical definition, unschooling is very far from not educating. It just means that we, as parents, are not "teaching" our children. Our children ARE LEARNING, rather than being taught. And if they have questions, we help them find the answer, whether it be on the internet, in the library, or in some real life situation. We help them to LEARN what THEY want to learn, not what we think that they should learn. I was skeptical when I first started unschooling but I am really surprised at how much my 3 children have learned in the past year. It's amazing. I think that whether we unschool, homeschool, or public or private school, that we should all be proud of our children, and concentrate more on that than arguing with someone over whose way is right or wrong. :)

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    1. Dayna Martin promotes children being exposed to porn and if a 12 year old girl wants to have sex? she is fine with that too. These aren't assumptions or rumors, it's in her FB group.

      She is an idiot and attention whore.

      Delete
    2. I completely agree. She is a total attention whore AND a liar and a fraud. STAY AWAY! People are finally working out what she's like.

      Delete
  53. "If Dayna Martin can't stand the criticism perhaps she shouldn't go around chasing media attention anywhere she can find it. This attention starved narcissist appears on any program that will have her, allows herself to be exploited, touts her silly ideas on national television and then cries about it when she ends up looking like an ass! Is she really that stupid that she didn't see it coming? Get over yourself, Dayna. Nobody cares except your small band of nutty groupies who are as useless at parenting as you are."

    I agree with this comment - she censors everyone who join her yahoo group when they disagree with her - quite shameful!

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    1. Can you elaborate on when Dayna has not been able to take the criticism? I'm not saying this is incorrect, in fact you could be 100% spot on, it's just I've never seen it from her so I'm genuinely curious to know more.

      Delete
    2. Her husband has multiple fake accounts on FB and Amazon. They post fake reviews on Amazon and fight with the negative reviews that her book receives. She also blocks blog comments and not for spam reasons. She notoriously alters posts when called out on something or deletes it, but won't post the critical comment. She dodges REAL questions ALL the time. I know her husband fights other Unschool advocates with his many fake accounts as well. She was recently invited over to the Unplugged Mom podcast to discuss a lot of the stuff she talks about and because she knew the host was gonna ask actual follow-up questions, she chickened out. Then lied about calendar issues when confronted. Have you ever known Dayna NOT to do an interview?

      I can go on and on. The list is long.. lol

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    3. "Can you elaborate on when Dayna has not been able to take the criticism? I'm not saying this is incorrect, in fact you could be 100% spot on, it's just I've never seen it from her so I'm genuinely curious to know more."

      Perhaps I can help with that.

      I really loved Dayna Martin's message when she came out, and left several positive comments on some of her videos on YouTube. I like the message and I actually mean the positive parts of the comment below.

      I left this comment a short while ago today on her recent Facebook post where she mentioned the Wife Swap appearance, which I saw a couple days ago:

      I love your philosophy in a general sense and really enjoyed the time you guest hosted on FDR as well as some other interviews, including there.

      And I totally think that you really did a great job with the other family, and they'd be much better off if they integrated your ideas into their lives. I think it's shameful the mother talks about popping the children in the mouth, and makes her little girl hide her artwork, and doesn't take the time to meet her son's friends.

      The way she treats her husband and the way he lets her treat him and the children is wrong also.

      And when she said that her own daughter's painting, well framed, would have to be taken down, that was just ghastly and heart-wrenching and despicable.

      So I think what you tried to do is tremendously good there.

      That said, I am not sure your radical unschooling is working out as well as you think it is.

      It's good that your children feel a strong attachment to you and your husband and each other. This is phenomenally important to their emotional wellbeing and thus happiness and success in life.

      And yet, when your daughter couldn't read that single word on an appliance, for example, at her age I did find that a little disturbing. I'm just being honest with you.

      And when your son said something like he'll be an entrepreneur or something, I couldn't help but think in most entrepreneurial endeavours he's going to need a solid knowledge base as well as critical thinking skills, not just a vague belief he's meant to be an entrepreneur. I'm keeping it real.

      Do you think it's possible that you have gone a little bit too far in one direction, and that an approach somewhere near [I meant to say "between"] your two families' approaches, but closer to yours, would be better?

      I remember hearing Stefan Molyneux in the first interview, for example, say that he found the whole children teaching themselves essentially only what they want and his daughter not being taught by him, as a parent, pretty hard to wrap his head around. Although he did find your approach intriguing and most of your values right on and he obviously likes you.

      I hope your children do not find that they aren't prepared for the world when they have to function as adults in it.

      And believe me, I am no fan of traditional schooling and agree with most of your approach. But I wonder if some formal reading and math instruction would not assist them, in addition to the warmth and family love.

      ---

      What I thought would happen is it would be deleted and I would be blocked. I predicted this based on what I'd observed to be her relentless self-promotion behaviours, and even some comments left on this thread that made me think.

      What actually happened is that it was deleted and I was blocked within a few minutes.

      While I strongly support the general idea of what she's trying to do: the general thrust of treating children peacefully and with more freedom, it disappoints me that someone I thought might become a hero of mine acts like this in response to a sincere question.

      That said, I do want to add that I don't like the hyperbolic language from this blogger, which isn't to say I entirely disagree with his substantive point.

      Delete
  54. I got to know the Martin family personally and you are SPOT on! She is a total narcissist. As for her kids, I feel for them. They really are well behaved, great kids even though they don't get out much.

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    1. This is very interesting. I did wonder about this myself. It would be great if you could elaborate more as she has a huge following, and if her motivation isn't as "honest" as she makes it out to be, I would love to hear more.

      I do love the "idea" of Dayna BUT I have reservations about all the media exposure and the amount of time she spends away from the home. Plus I felt sorry for her kids on Wife Swap. I felt they couldn't really handle themselves and I felt the poor 11 year old was really shamed for not knowing how to read. I felt so sad for the child. And it seems she can read fluently now which makes me think the shame she felt on the show fuelled her desire to learn to read, which is the totally wrong motivation. I'm sad her kids were put through this experience, even if it only lasted a few days. I'm a radical unschooler myself, but having seen the show I think I'll make more effort with my own kids to ensure they don't end up shamed by society for not having basic reading skills.

      It seems all these radical unschooling "advocates" have issues themselves. Dayna (nice as she comes across) could have a hidden agenda, and Sandra Dodd is simply a brain damaged bully - don't even get me started on that woman - here we have a grossly obese woman bullying parents into thinking all food needs to be seen as equal! I mean please! And that's only the tip of the iceberg with this woman. She attacks and berates parents, and is so obviously damaged that she can't even see it when it's pointed out time and time again! If anyone here thinks Dayna is bad, check out Sandra Dodd and she'll make Dayna look like a saint! At the end of the day the only advice any parent should follow is their own! Beware of these self serving "gurus".

      Delete
    2. A lot of people embrace Dayna more precisely because of how "nice" she portrays herself. Sandra is just an outright bully and she doesn't mince words. Dayna is slick and plays the nice card, but she is far from it. She has plagiarized so many authors. She steals ideas from others ALL the time. That RAW Food blog she has? Recipes stolen from new friends. The recent round of visits she made on Liberty Podcasts? she stole that when she saw another Homeschool Liberty Advocate make her mark there. Why is she in Libertarian podcasts? Dayna and Joe are both liberals. Anything to the contrary is a lie. I personally read Joe's post on gay marriage and higher taxes.

      A poor friend of mine who knew her personally confronted her via email and what did "nice" Dayna and Joe do? They forward the emails to other friends and altered what my friend wrote so it looked like my friend wrote this horrible stuff, which she didn't.

      Joe also has multiple fake FB accounts and argues with Sandra Dodd or anyone who is critical of Dayna.

      Oh what else did ms "Attachment Parent" Dayna do? She force-weaned her young son. Yep. It's a fact. Her oldest son tried to strangle a my friend's son too.

      That family is a mess and a fraud! but if you just go by their managed FB image, and fall for them, you would think they are all about love, peace and parenting. LIE.

      Delete
    3. You may find my comment here of interest.

      Delete
    4. Yep it's pretty obvious she force-weaned some of her children. She's just one big liar it seems. And a fraud too. She certainly doesn't walk her talk and is hardly ever at home with her kids. Her husband is the main parent.

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    5. She doesn't even eat raw food. That's a lie too even though she pretends she does so she can try to make a business out of it. It seems everything she says she doesn't actually do herself. The level of the lies is unbelievable. And her children will DEFINITELY need therapy when they're older, even though one of her lines is that they won't. They are as screwed up as they come and will really struggle in adult life - not because they were unschooled but because they have a total nutcase fraud liar fake for a mother. She barely spends any time with her kids and leaves them to their own devices. She really is a total disgrace. I bet she hates this blog too because she can't delete the negative comments from the people who actually know her and have met her. She constantly checks up on herself too so it will kill her reading these true comments from those in the know!

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  55. This article made me laugh! If you don't agree with Dayna Martin and radical unschooling then that is just dandy, but at least take the time to truly research the subjects and get your facts right. If the way you wrote this article is any indication of the type of education you recieved from traditional schooling methods then you made more of a case for unschooling than against!

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  56. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  57. " unschooling (which is apparently legal in New Hampshire), takes the Rousseau model of "free learning" to new, idiotic boundaries"

    Ironically, her feral children will never know who Rousseau was. Nor will their lives ever be enlightened by any artistic joy more sophisticated than those dumb beasts are capable of appreciating. One must bring education to an experience to get the most out of it. These people are brute, nothing more.

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    1. Ha! True. She was once asked on TV, "What about learning about the Presidents? and History?" her answer, "Do you think that's important?"

      She is such an idiot and an embarrassment to us unschoolers.

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  58. http://unschoolingthegreenfamily.blogspot.com/2013/07/watching-unschooling-pieces-crumble.html

    thought you might find this new writing of interest.

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  59. H ai, I'm a radical unschooler. Dayna Martin is a fucking joke. She's as fakes it gets. She is NOT our leader, guru, or example to be shown to the public. We are all different, like Christians.

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    1. Good for you! Ban together and keep letting the public know! She promotes herself in the media and people believe her.

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  60. Here is Dayna's response and how SHE is the victim. Never mind the families that she disrupted by her incompetence.
    http://thesparklingmartins.blogspot.com/2013/07/last-post.html?m=1

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    1. no surprise, it's been deleted.

      Delete
  61. I need to try to wrap my brain around the Dayna Martin supporters. The ones in particular that say something similar to the tune of, "she has helped me so much with my children that I could never think anything less of her." So let me get this straight. You come to me for unschooling advice and pay me for my limited experience raising my OWN children.I then get a PASS on everything else I do wrong to other people in the future? You will stay loyal and defend me because I gave you pointers and tips that I learned from other people before me?? I am in the wrong career. I am now a self proclaimed pioneer of unschooling.

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  62. Her book, Sexy Birth, is a lesson in plagiarism.
    http://sandradodd.com/problems/daynamartin/plagiarism

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  63. Unschooling and Radical unschooling represent a philosophy. This woman did not creat it nor does she own it!

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